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crackerbarrel

#1 09.Mar.18 07:34:13

Philpot
Banned

Another burst water main

This time on High Barn Street between the Railway Pub and the old Barclays Bank building

No sign of any work yet, but water billowing out through the tarmac

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#2 09.Mar.18 10:03:36

Barleycorn
Member

Re: Another burst water main

I can't not say this.     I just tried, but I cant...


Bursts, leaks, potholes, sink holes, awful road surfaces, three days and 20 blokes to dig a tiny hole up ( and much of what Rebel / Ridge report...)   it comes from decades of neglect, alongside a profit motive in almost all work done (so minimum cost for maximum invoicing).   

Local councils have much of the responsibility /cost  under localism and devolved govt - and yet are at the mercy of natinal agreements and uber corps who 'own' the infrastructure beneath the streets.

Our infrastructure - built over many decades, paid for by our parents and grandparents and often a cumulitive local/national endeavor - has become , since Thatcher, just another commodity to buy, sell or asset strip.



This is a choice about how 'we' want to live as a society      


Article in the FT, June 2017.


England is the only country to have fully privatised its water and sewerage system, with ownership transferred from the state to large regional monopolies in 1989. 

Investors paid £7.6bn for the water and sewerage companies in 1989 but the UK government took on the sector’s entire £4.9bn in debts and gave the new private corporations £1.5bn of public funds.

This is an expensive way to finance infrastructure,” said Dr Kate Bayliss, a research associate at the School of Oriental and African Studies at the University of London, who co-authored the study. “It
means that little extra money, in real terms, has come from shareholders while investment has largely been financed by commercial borrowing.”



https://www.ft.com/content/91a2779a-407 … f963e998b2

Subscribers may share up to 10 or 20 articles per month using the gift article service. More information can be found at https://www.ft.com/tour.
    https://www.ft.com/content/91a2779a-407 … f963e998b2


Labour have a viable plan to reverse this - https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 … -mcdonnell

The Corbyn 'mindset - so feared by Philpot and others - has transformed the left into a progressive force that is no longer scared to call out the vested interests that are pillaging the UK.  For too long, Labour wanted to hide behind a PR veneer of 'mondeo man' appeal - too timid to say what most of us on the loeft actually believe... 

But recent months - and it is getting more focused, more sustained and looking like a real coalition of ideas - have seen Corbyn leading the pack, and shaping the broad arguments for more socially responsible management of the UK - for the many, not the few.


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr … tely-owned


The bakers view : https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5695196/u … bank-says/      Parasites !!!

The tory way = Knowing the price of everything, but the value of nothing.     And the fact some high profile, unionised 1970's layabouts took the mickey at BR and BL was NOT justification to sell off all our assets - it was the cliched reason given, but it was neither valid nor (in so many areas) true.

Given the cash we have paid - it is a total disgrace the pipes are leaking all across the land.

Jeremy will sort it - nationally and locally   wink wink wink

Last edited by Barleycorn (09.Mar.18 10:07:12)


I went through ALL your posts, found nothing,

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#3 09.Mar.18 10:48:36

Philpot
Banned

Re: Another burst water main

We might all want to moan when we see a leak, but the fact is leakage rates have halved since privatisation

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#4 09.Mar.18 10:56:19

Barleycorn
Member

Re: Another burst water main

Philpot wrote:

We might all want to moan when we see a leak, but the fact is leakage rates have halved since privatisation


Have they?   

Good, if that is the case - at least we are getting something in return for our vastly inflated water bills.

Any chance you could provide a source for this fact?   Only because the news this week has been all about fifteen fold increases in lost water, and the astonishing amount of fresh water that seeps out of the system back into the ground - not 'bursts' as such, just ongoing, leaky pipes.


A local / national split for this fact would be interesting - I believe London is particulalry leaky, so maybe we are below aaverage?

 
The FT article I linked to is clearly written by a named academic, with traceable data - I could simply have said - "we are being ripped off, its a fact" ...  but I prefer my facts and arguments to come with a bit more clarity and a  verified origin.



Also - anyone else think our local water is some of the best tasting 'out of the tap' ?  North Manchester water supply always tastes particulalry good to me, in contrast to some of the chalky, stuff elsewhere in the UK.

Last edited by Barleycorn (09.Mar.18 11:01:11)


I went through ALL your posts, found nothing,

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#5 09.Mar.18 12:07:35

Philpot
Banned

Re: Another burst water main

Barleycorn wrote:
Philpot wrote:

We might all want to moan when we see a leak, but the fact is leakage rates have halved since privatisation


Have they?   

Good, if that is the case - at least we are getting something in return for our vastly inflated water bills.

Any chance you could provide a source for this fact?   Only because the news this week has been all about fifteen fold increases in lost water, and the astonishing amount of fresh water that seeps out of the system back into the ground - not 'bursts' as such, just ongoing, leaky pipes.


A local / national split for this fact would be interesting - I believe London is particulalry leaky, so maybe we are below aaverage?

 
The FT article I linked to is clearly written by a named academic, with traceable data - I could simply have said - "we are being ripped off, its a fact" ...  but I prefer my facts and arguments to come with a bit more clarity and a  verified origin.



Also - anyone else think our local water is some of the best tasting 'out of the tap' ?  North Manchester water supply always tastes particulalry good to me, in contrast to some of the chalky, stuff elsewhere in the UK.

DX14qrFXUAEelta?format=jpg&name=medium

http://www.cityam.com/276620/utilities- … nalisation

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#6 09.Mar.18 12:10:31

Philpot
Banned

Re: Another burst water main

Back on topic, the leak on Hign Barn Street seems to be comping Fron a relatively new install as the trench is clearly visible and looks fresh.

My guess is the pipe is too shallow and the joint has been blown by the recent cold snap

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#7 09.Mar.18 13:58:03

MikeS
Member

Re: Another burst water main

Any improvement in the leakage is down to better technology and materials and not the fact the water companies are privatised. As old pipes and sewers are replaced they are done so with techniques and materials that weren't available, or were only just being introduced, at the time of privatisation.
The same applies to the railways - technology has brought the improvements.

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#8 09.Mar.18 14:15:13

Woody
Member

Re: Another burst water main

MikeS wrote:

Any improvement in the leakage is down to better technology and materials and not the fact the water companies are privatised. As old pipes and sewers are replaced they are done so with techniques and materials that weren't available, or were only just being introduced, at the time of privatisation.
The same applies to the railways - technology has brought the improvements.





A lot of services now are PVC so there is flex in them in cold conditions and heavy traffic vibration cold cast iron fractures.


Were Gas Water were in cast iron before and Electric services were in bitumen wrapped cables the latest technology is Armoured or in a thick PVC sheath,


You would think a rolling programme of replacement would be factored into every years maintainance and replacement budget it would appear CEO and directors bonuses are a first priority,


I would if I could but I can't,

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#9 09.Mar.18 14:25:48

Philpot
Banned

Re: Another burst water main

MikeS wrote:

Any improvement in the leakage is down to better technology and materials and not the fact the water companies are privatised. As old pipes and sewers are replaced they are done so with techniques and materials that weren't available, or were only just being introduced, at the time of privatisation.
The same applies to the railways - technology has brought the improvements.

And the improved technologies have been created and developed by the privatised companies. Without such innovation they would not be competitive, and therefore not stay in business

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#10 09.Mar.18 14:54:11

Barleycorn
Member

Re: Another burst water main

Philpot wrote:
MikeS wrote:

Any improvement in the leakage is down to better technology and materials and not the fact the water companies are privatised. As old pipes and sewers are replaced they are done so with techniques and materials that weren't available, or were only just being introduced, at the time of privatisation.
The same applies to the railways - technology has brought the improvements.

And the improved technologies have been created and developed by the privatised companies. Without such innovation they would not be competitive, and therefore not stay in business


Just remind me why single grid, consumer supply utility monopolies need to be competitive ?

Our water has come down the same pipe for 30+ years.   Not seen any "competing' alternatives being dug in  down the streets of Oldham.


I went through ALL your posts, found nothing,

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#11 09.Mar.18 15:52:50

MikeS
Member

Re: Another burst water main

Philpot wrote:
MikeS wrote:

Any improvement in the leakage is down to better technology and materials and not the fact the water companies are privatised. As old pipes and sewers are replaced they are done so with techniques and materials that weren't available, or were only just being introduced, at the time of privatisation.
The same applies to the railways - technology has brought the improvements.

And the improved technologies have been created and developed by the privatised companies. Without such innovation they would not be competitive, and therefore not stay in business

That's debatable- in this country technology has, of course, advanced since privatisation but unfortunately we cannot say what would have happened if the water supply remained in public ownership. Is there any evidence that United Utilities (or any of the private suppliers) actually funded and developed the technology or have they simply taken advantage of it? I imagine it is a bit of both. However, the world is a different place than it was 30 years ago and I think there is no reason to assume that a public owned utility would not be at least using modern technology if not funding some research and development.

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#12 09.Mar.18 16:12:16

Philpot
Banned

Re: Another burst water main

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#13 09.Mar.18 16:55:16

MikeS
Member

Re: Another burst water main

Very good. I remain confident that Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell will ensure R&D and innovation will continue when they take utilities back into public ownership. Just as long as the Labour Party has good people working for it to ensure there is no backsliding by the MPs.

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#14 09.Mar.18 16:58:33

MikeS
Member

Re: Another burst water main

By the way, that information seems to imply the utility companies only maintain efficiency because a government regulator is watching them.

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#15 09.Mar.18 17:27:03

ridge walker
Member

Re: Another burst water main

Thats all well and good, I'm on a metre and i pay by the cubic meter for water that supplies my house, when its used i pay to have it treated/taken away, if i dug a well the cost to treat the waste water is as much as getting supplied by pipe, and in Royton the supply pipe and the sewer was  built 100 years ago, even if its more recent its descibed as decrepit by experts in the field, our reservoirs are victorian, built and paid for, if more recent its not something United Utilities have provided....... watching the leak run down High Barn today, thats the supply part, the water ran 25 yards along the curb then went down the grid- thats the waste water, add these together and  UU  owe themselves at a guess nothing, but they bill me for it and all their other customers to repair it, and expect me to buy their insurance.


Barley and Phil are very good  but mention Corbyn and John McDonald or Mondeo man is just  mischief, they are too well read and been to far too many meetings, its not what we do, we know what we know by instict, from birth we know whats right and wrong, what we were taught, not what we read or what meeting we attended or what school we went to, as Einstine said we cant change our spots, our background and where we grew up...... something like it, lets stick to what we know Shaw Roads dug up now and under temporary traffic lights, traffic in long tailbacks and drivers going through on red, Blackshaw Lane lights all snarled up,  Royton & Crompton school all dug up, lets get real.    JK

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#16 09.Mar.18 18:13:27

Tony
Member

Re: Another burst water main

Ridge is Middleton Rd open now through to Burnley Lane or still closed?


War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

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#17 09.Mar.18 18:32:55

Philpot
Banned

Re: Another burst water main

MikeS wrote:

By the way, that information seems to imply the utility companies only maintain efficiency because a government regulator is watching them.

That is common throughout all industries both here and across the globe

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#18 11.Mar.18 20:47:16

Woody
Member

Re: Another burst water main

Another excavation traffic control on looks like water again leaky valve just after the Bus stop Fir bank Road Royton side that will be a bottle neck for anyone going into Royton tomorrow,


I would if I could but I can't,

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#19 11.Mar.18 21:15:33

Tony
Member

Re: Another burst water main

Went through at about 2-30 this aft and the queue was back to the Half Way pub then, it seemed to let about four cars through then back to red, dreading tomorrow  sad


War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

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#20 11.Mar.18 22:43:59

LittleRach
Member

Re: Another burst water main

Tony wrote:

Went through at about 2-30 this aft and the queue was back to the Half Way pub then, it seemed to let about four cars through then back to red, dreading tomorrow  sad

Oh joy.  Can’t wait for the morning.  sad


Though we cannot make our sun stand still, yet we will make him run.

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#21 11.Mar.18 22:53:37

Tony
Member

Re: Another burst water main

May try Dogford Rd way instead.


War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

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#22 11.Mar.18 23:15:48

LittleRach
Member

Re: Another burst water main

Tony wrote:

May try Dogford Rd way instead.

I might do, but I bet everyone else will do that as well!  lol


Though we cannot make our sun stand still, yet we will make him run.

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#23 11.Mar.18 23:20:00

Tony
Member

Re: Another burst water main

LittleRach wrote:
Tony wrote:

May try Dogford Rd way instead.

I might do, but I bet everyone else will do that as well!  lol

Hope not as a lot won't realise until morning.


War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

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#24 12.Mar.18 11:12:10

ridge walker
Member

Re: Another burst water main

Sorry Tony,  Middleton road/Streetbridge is fully open to Burnley lane, not too mucky if you drive slow, the vehicles that visit the Treatment works have to park off the site down side lanes and even the new ones are absolutely filthy, cars and vans, wheels and tyres are thick with mud so thats getting on the road, its not just the heavy machines and theres no wheel wash facility, they rely on the sweeper but not seen that in recent weeks, there was an issue with where it could discharge its water tank with all its slurry, it cant be tipped in a drain or the river, not sure what they do now, they started with a brand new vehicle when they started and it was wrecked driving though mud 2 feet deep on the work site within weeks, the diggers had to dig it out, total driver madness, i digress.

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#25 03.Apr.18 18:43:04

MikeS
Member

Re: Another burst water main

Walked past Highbarn St/Rochdale Rd this afternoon and water was flowing along the gutter. It seemed to be coming from a hydrant cover near the car park opposite the Railway pub. Is this a portent for more roadworks?

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#26 03.Apr.18 18:47:39

Tony
Member

Re: Another burst water main

Most of Thornham was on much reduced pressure last week due to burst on Buckstones Rd Shaw, lots more to follow I suspect after the 'Beast from the east'


War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

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